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Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:15 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Well, I went to my seminars today (the ones I missed last week). The Renaissance one was fine, unremarkable, I said a few things, no big deal. The Women's Writing one was with the infuriating lecturer who prompted my can'o'worms feminism post. She is not a lot less infuriating in a seminar situation.
In her defence I have to say that I am hungry, which never puts me in a good mood, and the layout of the room sucks - all of us are round the edges writing on our laps, and we can't all see each other, and it just doesn't encourage involvement. I am going to try to not sit behind the door next week. Then again, it is her darn room, so she could arrange it however she liked. Tables would be good. They make people feel more like they are working together.
The seminar was on Aphra Behn's The Rover. I found quite a lot of the points made were rather too simplistic. Lecturer kept making statements like 'The men in the play don't wear masks! They don't need to disguise themselves!' when actually the men *do* disguise themselves; she made a little aside comment to this end but focussed on the men Not Being In Masks when it would have been more sensible not to draw a black-and-white distinction but to explore how the sexes use disguise differently, and why the women do masquerade more than the men. (She made a similar unqualified point about a character - 'Angellica does not disguise herself! She advertises herself!' - who, again, jolly well does appear in disguise, and we ought to be asking why instead of forgetting it.)
There was a whole lot of bollocks, basically, and from my seat in the corner it was pretty hard to challenge. I will hopefully be more prepared for next week. But I don't know how this is going to work - it's all simplified, and it probably does have to be simplified given that per text we have one 50-minute lecture and one 50-minute seminar. But does it have to be simplified to this extent, to the point where it sounds to me like a load of rubbish? Her whole approach seems about a notch and a half below where I want it to be, academically. I don't know what to do about it.
I did wait behind and bring up the crap lecture of crap with the lecturer, but it was very hard not to be accusatory about it. She said, basically, that they had talked about a lot more of that stuff in the seminar I missed, and in 50 minutes you have to be simplistic, and I couldn't think how to respond, so I didn't.
I am a bit depressed about this module. I think I'm going to spend the entire term really flipping irritated.
(Oh, and for those reading along who were stunned by this woman's unprofessional language in the lecture - today she mentioned but refused to read a poem by the Earl of Rochester because it included 'a word I never say under any circumstances ever' - a student asked 'the C-word?' and she assented - and she left her mobile phone on, which beeped, because 'she's worried the nursery might ring'. Now, I have sympathy there, but that's what pockets and vibrate mode are for. I nearly offered to read the damn poem myself except I am not familiar with it, did not have a copy in front of me, and so did not know what I would be letting myself in for. But I do dislike people being namby-pamby about literature. She did not have to mention the text at all if she did not want to be asked to read it.)
In her defence I have to say that I am hungry, which never puts me in a good mood, and the layout of the room sucks - all of us are round the edges writing on our laps, and we can't all see each other, and it just doesn't encourage involvement. I am going to try to not sit behind the door next week. Then again, it is her darn room, so she could arrange it however she liked. Tables would be good. They make people feel more like they are working together.
The seminar was on Aphra Behn's The Rover. I found quite a lot of the points made were rather too simplistic. Lecturer kept making statements like 'The men in the play don't wear masks! They don't need to disguise themselves!' when actually the men *do* disguise themselves; she made a little aside comment to this end but focussed on the men Not Being In Masks when it would have been more sensible not to draw a black-and-white distinction but to explore how the sexes use disguise differently, and why the women do masquerade more than the men. (She made a similar unqualified point about a character - 'Angellica does not disguise herself! She advertises herself!' - who, again, jolly well does appear in disguise, and we ought to be asking why instead of forgetting it.)
There was a whole lot of bollocks, basically, and from my seat in the corner it was pretty hard to challenge. I will hopefully be more prepared for next week. But I don't know how this is going to work - it's all simplified, and it probably does have to be simplified given that per text we have one 50-minute lecture and one 50-minute seminar. But does it have to be simplified to this extent, to the point where it sounds to me like a load of rubbish? Her whole approach seems about a notch and a half below where I want it to be, academically. I don't know what to do about it.
I did wait behind and bring up the crap lecture of crap with the lecturer, but it was very hard not to be accusatory about it. She said, basically, that they had talked about a lot more of that stuff in the seminar I missed, and in 50 minutes you have to be simplistic, and I couldn't think how to respond, so I didn't.
I am a bit depressed about this module. I think I'm going to spend the entire term really flipping irritated.
(Oh, and for those reading along who were stunned by this woman's unprofessional language in the lecture - today she mentioned but refused to read a poem by the Earl of Rochester because it included 'a word I never say under any circumstances ever' - a student asked 'the C-word?' and she assented - and she left her mobile phone on, which beeped, because 'she's worried the nursery might ring'. Now, I have sympathy there, but that's what pockets and vibrate mode are for. I nearly offered to read the damn poem myself except I am not familiar with it, did not have a copy in front of me, and so did not know what I would be letting myself in for. But I do dislike people being namby-pamby about literature. She did not have to mention the text at all if she did not want to be asked to read it.)
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Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 12:37 pm (UTC)I have no respect left for this woman!
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Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:10 pm (UTC)From memory there's...
Cupid and Bacchus my saints are,
May Drink and Love still reign!
With wine I wash away my cares,
And then to cunt again
And there's a poem he wrote to or rather about a courtesan called Mrs (Connie?) Willis who earned his ire, the last two lines of which are:
her belly is a bag of turds
her cunt a common shore (I'm sure you know shore was a word for sewer at the time)
There are probably a couple more but I can't drag them to mind right now. Honestly, I wasn't counting the number of times he said cunt when I was reading.
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Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 12:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 12:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:03 pm (UTC)I actually sat there writing notes on what she was saying interspersed with the expostulations I couldn't manage to say out loud ('But they DO wear masks! This is rubbish! Gah, C-word! Stupid woman!'). I think nobody will be seeing my notes from that seminar but me :)
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Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 12:48 pm (UTC)I have a shark phobia but I still managed to rattle my way through a seminar on Copley's Watson and the Shark because it just wasn't the time and place to make a fuss about a personal issue. ;)
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Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 12:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 12:59 pm (UTC)No worries about lurking - but it's great to see you back :)
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Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:43 pm (UTC)She does sound a bit rubbish; I think prob your best bet is, as you say, to avoid sitting behind the door next time, & to start challenging things.
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Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 08:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 03:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 11:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 08:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 04:25 pm (UTC)I've no idea how to phrase this without annoying someone somewhere but there will be, in any given group, people well above the level of the group, and people well below the level. It's possible everyone else in the group is as annoyed as you are at the level, but it's also possible that there are people struggling to deal with what, for you, is pretty basic stuff - and the lecturer has to negotiate that...
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Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 04:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 11:40 pm (UTC)I might be more aware of some kinds of issues than some of the group and can't expect the theory bit to exactly fit what I'd want to discuss. Equally I'm sure there must be other people chafing at some of the simplistic specifically textual stuff going on.
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Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 11:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 11:58 pm (UTC)I could deal with political burble if she disclaimered it, but actual English burble I cannot be doing with. And there's no excuse at all for the bordering-on-insulting language she used in her lecture.
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 12:03 am (UTC)But if you really feel this strongly about it, it'd probably be worth tackling it with her.
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 12:15 am (UTC)YM the language, or the whole business?
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 12:17 am (UTC)To be really honest, I'd expect them to tell me...
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 12:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 08:44 am (UTC)If you expect her to be honest with students, isn't it a reciprocal arrangement?
I've been in the reverse position - when a student has had to tell me similar things about what I've done in lectures. Sometimes I've seen the point and changed what I was doing because I needed to, sometimes I didn't because, on reflection, it didn't seem appropriate.
But from the view across the desk, as it were, one of the more frustrating things that happens is getting a review report from a student that says, "You've been doing this all term and it really bugs me!". The obvious question is - why didn't the student say something at the outset?
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 05:11 pm (UTC)It's not the case that she is continually using offensive language about sexual minorities, it's just that her having done so makes me seriously wonder about her general attitude to the area, which is not good in a course with this kind of political content.
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 06:07 pm (UTC)Then I'd suggest that hers are none of yours? Whatever my political views are, or may be, are none of the business of my students...
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 11:06 pm (UTC)She did say to me that she was coming at all this from a Marxist POV. I have only a limited idea how that applies to feminism and don't care one way or the other as long as she can present to me a rounded view or tell me when she isn't; I have no evidence she's not doing that, so it does not bother me. This isn't about her personal politics at all.
I may be expressing myself badly because it is very late. Do excuse me if so :)
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 11:14 pm (UTC)And I'm not at all sure feminism IS about ending discrimination - in some forms it is (such as the one I avow) but I could easily find forms in which is is about changing discrimination rather than getting rid of it. Nor are all feminist theorists calling for acceptance - that's such a wide open statement - acceptance for what? The second wave is *founded* pretty much on non-acceptance (of violence toward women (and (or not) those who perpetrate it)).
I'm not picking holes for the sake of picking holes, honest - but it's such a convoluted field that *any* statement is going to be full of gaping holes - iow your view of what feminism is, is quite possibly not what someone else's is. My view of what it is for me would certainly not be the same as your lecturer's, for instance, as I'm not coming at it from a Marxist POV.
I'm not sure one can present a rounded view of feminism or feminist literary critique (of which I have a very limited knowledge), particularly since you're only talking about a couple of lectures and seminars.
I know I come across as defending the lecturer - but note I've not defended what she's said at all. What I am saying is that she deserves a fair crack at defending herself, or explaining what she's said to you.
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 11:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Thursday, 18 October 2007 08:35 pm (UTC)They may have advice - they may be able to suggest an alternative course that you could get into, they may know a way to bring up the problem constructively... Right now, though, you're being insulted in your lectures, and that is Not On At All. How can you learn anything when it's making you so angry you need hours to wind down afterwards?
By some definitions, I am a hairy lesbian. Stupid bloody lecturer :P
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 05:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 06:08 pm (UTC)But I'm thinking how I'd feel if one of my students was able to so articulately tell a good number of people I don't know, that I was in their view not good at my job, unprofessional, etc. - but didn't tell *me* that.
I know this sounds harsh but basically you're taking her to task for not acting in a way that seems adult and mature to you...?
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 11:02 pm (UTC)Essentially, I don't think I can explain this to her in a way that will really do either of us any good. I might be able to subtly change things via my contributions in seminars, so I will try that first. I will also see if my personal tutor has any advice.
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 11:07 pm (UTC)How you do it is up to you - I can only speak from my POV from behind the desk, but I'd really rather have a student say, "Look, this has been bothering me since that first seminar, can we talk about it?". You could ask if you'd misunderstood (if you don't want to be confrontational).
I'd agree that email isn't a good idea.
It's not a comfortable situation for you and I'm not unaware of that. And I'm reasonably certain the lecturer will never read this thread or know of it - but to me, it only seems fair to her to let her know that you feel this way.
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 11:24 pm (UTC)I actually disagree. If I expect her to *change* her behaviour, it's only fair I let her know. If I don't tell her I expect it will continue and that is that. Clearly it would be better if I could discuss it with her. But I honestly do not feel at the moment that this is possible in a constructive manner which will not cause me problems, and therefore I will not do it until I feel differently. I will put up with the issues until that time. Writing about it here will help me to do that. I am not going to potentially disadvantage myself for her benefit when I am already struggling with other things.
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 11:26 pm (UTC)However, obviously it is your choice. We disagree on this one fairly fundamentally so perhaps it's best if I just stop here.
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Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 11:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 05:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 10:50 pm (UTC)I have considerably less respect for her now than I did after the "hermaphrodites and things" episode.
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Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 11:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 10:12 am (UTC)*sympathies*