Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:15 pm
taimatsu: (Default)
[personal profile] taimatsu
Well, I went to my seminars today (the ones I missed last week). The Renaissance one was fine, unremarkable, I said a few things, no big deal. The Women's Writing one was with the infuriating lecturer who prompted my can'o'worms feminism post. She is not a lot less infuriating in a seminar situation.

In her defence I have to say that I am hungry, which never puts me in a good mood, and the layout of the room sucks - all of us are round the edges writing on our laps, and we can't all see each other, and it just doesn't encourage involvement. I am going to try to not sit behind the door next week. Then again, it is her darn room, so she could arrange it however she liked. Tables would be good. They make people feel more like they are working together.

The seminar was on Aphra Behn's The Rover. I found quite a lot of the points made were rather too simplistic. Lecturer kept making statements like 'The men in the play don't wear masks! They don't need to disguise themselves!' when actually the men *do* disguise themselves; she made a little aside comment to this end but focussed on the men Not Being In Masks when it would have been more sensible not to draw a black-and-white distinction but to explore how the sexes use disguise differently, and why the women do masquerade more than the men. (She made a similar unqualified point about a character - 'Angellica does not disguise herself! She advertises herself!' - who, again, jolly well does appear in disguise, and we ought to be asking why instead of forgetting it.)

There was a whole lot of bollocks, basically, and from my seat in the corner it was pretty hard to challenge. I will hopefully be more prepared for next week. But I don't know how this is going to work - it's all simplified, and it probably does have to be simplified given that per text we have one 50-minute lecture and one 50-minute seminar. But does it have to be simplified to this extent, to the point where it sounds to me like a load of rubbish? Her whole approach seems about a notch and a half below where I want it to be, academically. I don't know what to do about it.

I did wait behind and bring up the crap lecture of crap with the lecturer, but it was very hard not to be accusatory about it. She said, basically, that they had talked about a lot more of that stuff in the seminar I missed, and in 50 minutes you have to be simplistic, and I couldn't think how to respond, so I didn't.

I am a bit depressed about this module. I think I'm going to spend the entire term really flipping irritated.

(Oh, and for those reading along who were stunned by this woman's unprofessional language in the lecture - today she mentioned but refused to read a poem by the Earl of Rochester because it included 'a word I never say under any circumstances ever' - a student asked 'the C-word?' and she assented - and she left her mobile phone on, which beeped, because 'she's worried the nursery might ring'. Now, I have sympathy there, but that's what pockets and vibrate mode are for. I nearly offered to read the damn poem myself except I am not familiar with it, did not have a copy in front of me, and so did not know what I would be letting myself in for. But I do dislike people being namby-pamby about literature. She did not have to mention the text at all if she did not want to be asked to read it.)

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 12:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrkgnao.livejournal.com
The Earl of Rochester MUST be read for he godly and The Sex!

I have no respect left for this woman!

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrkgnao.livejournal.com
Um, not last a vast canon of them but a few - (some of) his poems are pretty filthy actually and use of the word "cunt" is the last of it.

From memory there's...

Cupid and Bacchus my saints are,
May Drink and Love still reign!
With wine I wash away my cares,
And then to cunt again

And there's a poem he wrote to or rather about a courtesan called Mrs (Connie?) Willis who earned his ire, the last two lines of which are:

her belly is a bag of turds
her cunt a common shore (I'm sure you know shore was a word for sewer at the time)

There are probably a couple more but I can't drag them to mind right now. Honestly, I wasn't counting the number of times he said cunt when I was reading.

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 12:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] medland.livejournal.com
She could have just said 'the c word' when she got to that point, I do that when I'm singing along with stuff and it has the F word as I try (operative being on try there lol) not to swear. Woman sounds stupid.

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 12:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] medland.livejournal.com
As in I say 'eff' or 'effing'

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 12:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] medusa.livejournal.com
The lecturer sounds totally rubbish and unprofessional. Plenty of people find the C Word objectionable but, really, she is being a bit childish in refusing to utter it in an academic context.

I have a shark phobia but I still managed to rattle my way through a seminar on Copley's Watson and the Shark because it just wasn't the time and place to make a fuss about a personal issue. ;)

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 12:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kmazzy.livejournal.com
ahaha you should change your name to cunt and then make her say it. man people are weird. hello by the way! i've been a lame lurky person recently. sorry!

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:05 pm (UTC)
ext_8103: (Default)
From: [identity profile] ewx.livejournal.com
Language should be a servant, not a master.

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 01:43 pm (UTC)
juliet: Shot of my bookshelves at home (books)
From: [personal profile] juliet
Also historically a bit off as wasn't it not a particularly offensive word at the time?

She does sound a bit rubbish; I think prob your best bet is, as you say, to avoid sitting behind the door next time, & to start challenging things.

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 08:26 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] cosmolinguist
Well, it would be different spellings 'cause they hadn't invented spelling yet by Chaucer's time. :) And of course "queynte" works well for punning reasons, which our dear Geoffrey was also a fan of.

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 03:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] undyingking.livejournal.com
Either that or carry on sitting behind the door, nod out and let it just wash past you.

Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 08:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] undyingking.livejournal.com
ISWTM, but from what you've cited so far it sounds like you'd learn more just from your own reading!

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 04:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ifimust.livejournal.com
A couple of questions - is this a regular under/post grad course or specifically adult ed? What level is it?

I've no idea how to phrase this without annoying someone somewhere but there will be, in any given group, people well above the level of the group, and people well below the level. It's possible everyone else in the group is as annoyed as you are at the level, but it's also possible that there are people struggling to deal with what, for you, is pretty basic stuff - and the lecturer has to negotiate that...

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ifimust.livejournal.com
By "negotiate" I mean in the sense one negotiates a tricky road, rather than sitting around a table working out a pay deal.. :}

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 11:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ifimust.livejournal.com
Nodding... but... well, I'm still going to offend *someone* here, but a lot of second years will not have nearly the experience you do in terms of self expression, etc., and while I'm not necessarily defending the way the course is taught entirely,hitting that level is very difficult...

Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 12:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ifimust.livejournal.com
Probably not, but people have different sensibilities... by which I don't mean the old, trite and I think untrue, "you can only be insulted if you choose to be insulted".

But if you really feel this strongly about it, it'd probably be worth tackling it with her.

Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 12:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ifimust.livejournal.com
TBH, if it's upsetting you this much - whatever it is that's upsetting you. I can't help but look at it from the lecture's POV, and if I'd upset one of my own students this much by something I'd not realised I was doing, I'd want them to tell me.

To be really honest, I'd expect them to tell me...

Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 08:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ifimust.livejournal.com
But think about it from her POV - she's just going to keep doing it unless someone tells her (yes, she probably should know but lecturers are (with a certain generosity of spirit in some cases) only human).

If you expect her to be honest with students, isn't it a reciprocal arrangement?

I've been in the reverse position - when a student has had to tell me similar things about what I've done in lectures. Sometimes I've seen the point and changed what I was doing because I needed to, sometimes I didn't because, on reflection, it didn't seem appropriate.

But from the view across the desk, as it were, one of the more frustrating things that happens is getting a review report from a student that says, "You've been doing this all term and it really bugs me!". The obvious question is - why didn't the student say something at the outset?

Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 06:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ifimust.livejournal.com
Ok, I know I'm playing devil's advocate here - but are your attitudes any business of your lecturers?

Then I'd suggest that hers are none of yours? Whatever my political views are, or may be, are none of the business of my students...

Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 11:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ifimust.livejournal.com
I'm not at all sure it is appropriate to academia. It's what *I* do but that's my choice, carefully thought out. And I don't maintain it across the board - I'm afraid my bias shows through when I speak about particularly shoddy research on the witchcraft trials, for instance.

And I'm not at all sure feminism IS about ending discrimination - in some forms it is (such as the one I avow) but I could easily find forms in which is is about changing discrimination rather than getting rid of it. Nor are all feminist theorists calling for acceptance - that's such a wide open statement - acceptance for what? The second wave is *founded* pretty much on non-acceptance (of violence toward women (and (or not) those who perpetrate it)).

I'm not picking holes for the sake of picking holes, honest - but it's such a convoluted field that *any* statement is going to be full of gaping holes - iow your view of what feminism is, is quite possibly not what someone else's is. My view of what it is for me would certainly not be the same as your lecturer's, for instance, as I'm not coming at it from a Marxist POV.

I'm not sure one can present a rounded view of feminism or feminist literary critique (of which I have a very limited knowledge), particularly since you're only talking about a couple of lectures and seminars.

I know I come across as defending the lecturer - but note I've not defended what she's said at all. What I am saying is that she deserves a fair crack at defending herself, or explaining what she's said to you.

Date: Thursday, 18 October 2007 08:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] baratron.livejournal.com
Yes. Please speak to your personal tutor.

They may have advice - they may be able to suggest an alternative course that you could get into, they may know a way to bring up the problem constructively... Right now, though, you're being insulted in your lectures, and that is Not On At All. How can you learn anything when it's making you so angry you need hours to wind down afterwards?

By some definitions, I am a hairy lesbian. Stupid bloody lecturer :P

Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 06:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ifimust.livejournal.com
I know.

But I'm thinking how I'd feel if one of my students was able to so articulately tell a good number of people I don't know, that I was in their view not good at my job, unprofessional, etc. - but didn't tell *me* that.

I know this sounds harsh but basically you're taking her to task for not acting in a way that seems adult and mature to you...?

Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 11:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ifimust.livejournal.com
I think what I'm saying is that if you're going to complain about her and her teaching style, it's really only fair you let her know.

How you do it is up to you - I can only speak from my POV from behind the desk, but I'd really rather have a student say, "Look, this has been bothering me since that first seminar, can we talk about it?". You could ask if you'd misunderstood (if you don't want to be confrontational).

I'd agree that email isn't a good idea.

It's not a comfortable situation for you and I'm not unaware of that. And I'm reasonably certain the lecturer will never read this thread or know of it - but to me, it only seems fair to her to let her know that you feel this way.

Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 11:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ifimust.livejournal.com
It is not impeding your learning in any way? It would seem that it is...

However, obviously it is your choice. We disagree on this one fairly fundamentally so perhaps it's best if I just stop here.

(deleted comment)
(deleted comment)

Date: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 10:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pozorvlak.livejournal.com
What he said. What kind of fucking English lecturer won't use the word "cunt" when it's in the poem being read? Or "nigger", for that matter.

I have considerably less respect for her now than I did after the "hermaphrodites and things" episode.

Date: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 10:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mirabehn.livejournal.com
Oh good grief, she sounds *awful*.

*sympathies*

Profile

taimatsu: (Default)
taimatsu

April 2019

M T W T F S S
1234567
891011121314
15161718192021
22232425262728
2930     

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags