no subject

[taimatsu]

Well, I went to my seminars today (the ones I missed last week). The Renaissance one was fine, unremarkable, I said a few things, no big deal. The Women's Writing one was with the infuriating lecturer who prompted my can'o'worms feminism post. She is not a lot less infuriating in a seminar situation.

In her defence I have to say that I am hungry, which never puts me in a good mood, and the layout of the room sucks - all of us are round the edges writing on our laps, and we can't all see each other, and it just doesn't encourage involvement. I am going to try to not sit behind the door next week. Then again, it is her darn room, so she could arrange it however she liked. Tables would be good. They make people feel more like they are working together.

The seminar was on Aphra Behn's The Rover. I found quite a lot of the points made were rather too simplistic. Lecturer kept making statements like 'The men in the play don't wear masks! They don't need to disguise themselves!' when actually the men *do* disguise themselves; she made a little aside comment to this end but focussed on the men Not Being In Masks when it would have been more sensible not to draw a black-and-white distinction but to explore how the sexes use disguise differently, and why the women do masquerade more than the men. (She made a similar unqualified point about a character - 'Angellica does not disguise herself! She advertises herself!' - who, again, jolly well does appear in disguise, and we ought to be asking why instead of forgetting it.)

There was a whole lot of bollocks, basically, and from my seat in the corner it was pretty hard to challenge. I will hopefully be more prepared for next week. But I don't know how this is going to work - it's all simplified, and it probably does have to be simplified given that per text we have one 50-minute lecture and one 50-minute seminar. But does it have to be simplified to this extent, to the point where it sounds to me like a load of rubbish? Her whole approach seems about a notch and a half below where I want it to be, academically. I don't know what to do about it.

I did wait behind and bring up the crap lecture of crap with the lecturer, but it was very hard not to be accusatory about it. She said, basically, that they had talked about a lot more of that stuff in the seminar I missed, and in 50 minutes you have to be simplistic, and I couldn't think how to respond, so I didn't.

I am a bit depressed about this module. I think I'm going to spend the entire term really flipping irritated.

(Oh, and for those reading along who were stunned by this woman's unprofessional language in the lecture - today she mentioned but refused to read a poem by the Earl of Rochester because it included 'a word I never say under any circumstances ever' - a student asked 'the C-word?' and she assented - and she left her mobile phone on, which beeped, because 'she's worried the nursery might ring'. Now, I have sympathy there, but that's what pockets and vibrate mode are for. I nearly offered to read the damn poem myself except I am not familiar with it, did not have a copy in front of me, and so did not know what I would be letting myself in for. But I do dislike people being namby-pamby about literature. She did not have to mention the text at all if she did not want to be asked to read it.)

Comments

[ifimust.livejournal.com]

Nodding... but... well, I'm still going to offend *someone* here, but a lot of second years will not have nearly the experience you do in terms of self expression, etc., and while I'm not necessarily defending the way the course is taught entirely,hitting that level is very difficult...

[taimatsu]

No, quite right. I think... I think I could cope with her simplifying the queer politics issues if she said at some point 'there is more to this area than I can fit in to this lecture. Please read more on how queer politics and feminism intersect if it is an area you are interested in, and remember that I have not given you the full picture.' But I am not keen on her simplifying actual textual issues, because that's just dumb. The book is right there in front of us. We know Angellica Bianca wears a mask in one scene. Why babble about how she doesn't disguise herself, without analysing the place where she does?

I could deal with political burble if she disclaimered it, but actual English burble I cannot be doing with. And there's no excuse at all for the bordering-on-insulting language she used in her lecture.

[ifimust.livejournal.com]

Probably not, but people have different sensibilities... by which I don't mean the old, trite and I think untrue, "you can only be insulted if you choose to be insulted".

But if you really feel this strongly about it, it'd probably be worth tackling it with her.

[taimatsu]

Referring to marginalised groups *only* by pejorative stereotypes = doubleplus ungood, IMO.

YM the language, or the whole business?

[ifimust.livejournal.com]

TBH, if it's upsetting you this much - whatever it is that's upsetting you. I can't help but look at it from the lecture's POV, and if I'd upset one of my own students this much by something I'd not realised I was doing, I'd want them to tell me.

To be really honest, I'd expect them to tell me...

[taimatsu]

I kind of tried this morning, but it was really hard to say anything at all without saying 'You used language in your lecture last week which I found offensive and very inappropriate'. That is just not something I can say to a lecturer in whose seminar I have to study for the remainder of the term.

[ifimust.livejournal.com]

But think about it from her POV - she's just going to keep doing it unless someone tells her (yes, she probably should know but lecturers are (with a certain generosity of spirit in some cases) only human).

If you expect her to be honest with students, isn't it a reciprocal arrangement?

I've been in the reverse position - when a student has had to tell me similar things about what I've done in lectures. Sometimes I've seen the point and changed what I was doing because I needed to, sometimes I didn't because, on reflection, it didn't seem appropriate.

But from the view across the desk, as it were, one of the more frustrating things that happens is getting a review report from a student that says, "You've been doing this all term and it really bugs me!". The obvious question is - why didn't the student say something at the outset?

[taimatsu]

I think I'll talk to my personal tutor about the problem tomorrow, and see how her next seminar goes. If it's just as crap, I will try to talk to her.

It's not the case that she is continually using offensive language about sexual minorities, it's just that her having done so makes me seriously wonder about her general attitude to the area, which is not good in a course with this kind of political content.

[ifimust.livejournal.com]

Ok, I know I'm playing devil's advocate here - but are your attitudes any business of your lecturers?

Then I'd suggest that hers are none of yours? Whatever my political views are, or may be, are none of the business of my students...

[taimatsu]

I agree. I didn't quite mean that - I was thinking about a general attitude of non-discrimination and careful/politically correct language, which I see as appropriate to academia. Burbling about 'hairy lesbians' would be bad in any lecture (and I'd react similarly) but in this course, which is supposed to be about a movement aiming to end discrimination and advance acceptance for differing lifestyles in various ways, it's especially awkward. Additionally, I think that the fact that feminism is a challenging political area for many people means that sensitivities around this sort of thing may be more acute.

She did say to me that she was coming at all this from a Marxist POV. I have only a limited idea how that applies to feminism and don't care one way or the other as long as she can present to me a rounded view or tell me when she isn't; I have no evidence she's not doing that, so it does not bother me. This isn't about her personal politics at all.

I may be expressing myself badly because it is very late. Do excuse me if so :)

[ifimust.livejournal.com]

I'm not at all sure it is appropriate to academia. It's what *I* do but that's my choice, carefully thought out. And I don't maintain it across the board - I'm afraid my bias shows through when I speak about particularly shoddy research on the witchcraft trials, for instance.

And I'm not at all sure feminism IS about ending discrimination - in some forms it is (such as the one I avow) but I could easily find forms in which is is about changing discrimination rather than getting rid of it. Nor are all feminist theorists calling for acceptance - that's such a wide open statement - acceptance for what? The second wave is *founded* pretty much on non-acceptance (of violence toward women (and (or not) those who perpetrate it)).

I'm not picking holes for the sake of picking holes, honest - but it's such a convoluted field that *any* statement is going to be full of gaping holes - iow your view of what feminism is, is quite possibly not what someone else's is. My view of what it is for me would certainly not be the same as your lecturer's, for instance, as I'm not coming at it from a Marxist POV.

I'm not sure one can present a rounded view of feminism or feminist literary critique (of which I have a very limited knowledge), particularly since you're only talking about a couple of lectures and seminars.

I know I come across as defending the lecturer - but note I've not defended what she's said at all. What I am saying is that she deserves a fair crack at defending herself, or explaining what she's said to you.

[taimatsu]

Thanks. I can't respond appropriately to this at this time of night because I am absolutely exhausted. I still mostly disagree with you.

[baratron.livejournal.com]

Yes. Please speak to your personal tutor.

They may have advice - they may be able to suggest an alternative course that you could get into, they may know a way to bring up the problem constructively... Right now, though, you're being insulted in your lectures, and that is Not On At All. How can you learn anything when it's making you so angry you need hours to wind down afterwards?

By some definitions, I am a hairy lesbian. Stupid bloody lecturer :P

[taimatsu]

Oh, and the reason the student might not say something at the outset is that it's really difficult for many people to challenge authority figures, or to find the words to say they have this kind of problem without being offensive, and without sounding moany. It's hard to back this kind of thing up and avoid simply saying 'I don't like it, so change it.'

[ifimust.livejournal.com]

I know.

But I'm thinking how I'd feel if one of my students was able to so articulately tell a good number of people I don't know, that I was in their view not good at my job, unprofessional, etc. - but didn't tell *me* that.

I know this sounds harsh but basically you're taking her to task for not acting in a way that seems adult and mature to you...?

[taimatsu]

Yes. I don't know what I am supposed to do about it. It has been suggested to me that emailing her is a bad idea because it is too confrontational. Unfortunately, I can't manage to phrase my concerns to her face-to-face in a non-confrontational way either, and I don't think having a confrontation with my seminar leader is a good idea if I want to continue studying this module (which I do - the texts themselves are very interesting, whether or not my lecturer is any cop).

Essentially, I don't think I can explain this to her in a way that will really do either of us any good. I might be able to subtly change things via my contributions in seminars, so I will try that first. I will also see if my personal tutor has any advice.

[ifimust.livejournal.com]

I think what I'm saying is that if you're going to complain about her and her teaching style, it's really only fair you let her know.

How you do it is up to you - I can only speak from my POV from behind the desk, but I'd really rather have a student say, "Look, this has been bothering me since that first seminar, can we talk about it?". You could ask if you'd misunderstood (if you don't want to be confrontational).

I'd agree that email isn't a good idea.

It's not a comfortable situation for you and I'm not unaware of that. And I'm reasonably certain the lecturer will never read this thread or know of it - but to me, it only seems fair to her to let her know that you feel this way.

[taimatsu]

I think what I'm saying is that if you're going to complain about her and her teaching style, it's really only fair you let her know.

I actually disagree. If I expect her to *change* her behaviour, it's only fair I let her know. If I don't tell her I expect it will continue and that is that. Clearly it would be better if I could discuss it with her. But I honestly do not feel at the moment that this is possible in a constructive manner which will not cause me problems, and therefore I will not do it until I feel differently. I will put up with the issues until that time. Writing about it here will help me to do that. I am not going to potentially disadvantage myself for her benefit when I am already struggling with other things.

[ifimust.livejournal.com]

It is not impeding your learning in any way? It would seem that it is...

However, obviously it is your choice. We disagree on this one fairly fundamentally so perhaps it's best if I just stop here.

[taimatsu]

If I think I can talk to her constructively I will. Until that point it will only be destructive, so obviously I won't do it.

[taimatsu]

I can't imagine any of those things are likely, as she is an English lecturer and should be doing her own work. More likely would be that she has decided on an approach to the book and is pushing it without taking a more rounded view. It's quite possible that if I analyse this play, look at it in its totality, I might then come to conclusions like hers about it. But her presentation is skipping the step of taking all the evidence into account.