*runs for cover*

[taimatsu]

Am now preparing to be considered humourless bitch by at least half the Camarilla. *sigh*

Comments

[renfield286.livejournal.com]

why?

[taimatsu]

I've just posted to UK-G about Simon/Rory's t-shirt sponsorship thing.

[suave-steve.livejournal.com]

Well this half of the Cam isn't laughing either...

[clupea-rufus.livejournal.com]

For the record, I agree with you.

I like slogan t-shirts a lot, but a few of these do make me slightly uncomfortable. And I don't think I'm going to be the only one.

Self-depreciating humour would be appropriate in this situation, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

[taimatsu]

*nod* I thought this when I first saw Simon's plans, and it's slowly become clear that no-one else was going to say anything, and since I would be genuinely uncomfortable if that t-shirt *did* turn up in an 'official capacity' at the event, I thought I should mention it.

It's different if someone buys it and wears it by themselves for their own purposes (not for charity, not with the encouragement and cheerleading of others) because then I am free to consider them rude, unpleasant, boorish, sexist etc. and berate them or ignore them as I please. But when someone decides to be a sexist boor *for charity* and asks other people to *encourage them* in this at a society event, then I do have a problem.

[the-alchemist.livejournal.com]

Usually when I worry about that, I find that lots of people were thinking the same thing as me but didn't dare say it because they didn't want to be considered a humourless bitch.

[taimatsu]

Mmmm, I suspect this is the case here.

(The issue is that someone wants to be sponsored - in aid of Amnesty International - to wear, at a society event, a t-shirt I and others consider to be unpleasant, sexist and generally unfunny. No-one else has yet made it clear they disapprove, and I run the risk of looking not only humourless but also negative about charity sponsorship...)

[suave-steve.livejournal.com]

Oh and if you want to talk about this to someone "semi-officially" just mail me.

[taimatsu]

Which address should I use? I'm not sure I do need to escalate to Trustee level (and I'm not sure I know what the Trustees could or would do!) but it'd be handy to know.

[davedevil.livejournal.com]

Its no really on to be usin cam mailing lists to flog your wears either...

[taimatsu]

Well, I wouldn't mind that given that it is also a charity thing, and we don't do enough charity things. (Perhaps a better plan would be for Simon to suggest a charity raffle with his t-shirts as some of the prizes?) But the nature of the suggested sponsored activity is what grates. Sponsor me to be rude to girls! Woo! (Gross over-simplification, but still...)

[borusa.livejournal.com]

Hmm.

I want a T-Shirt that says "Tell me about your character and I'll tell you about my last Bridge match."

That's 24 boards worth of "Dummy had the Ace, queen, nine of clubs, so I lead low intending to finesse with the nine, but when LHO rose with the jack I covered with the queen and led the ace, realising that either he had K-J bare or J-10-x, and I didn't have enough entries to hand to lead through him three times, but there was a good chance the king would drop from one hand or another. Unfortunately, he had K-J-x, and I'd bought the false card, so when the king didn't drop I switched to a diamond and..."

I don't think you're humourless - I think you're right.

[cryx]

I think you should make that t-shirt. I certainly have the urge to make you an icon ;)

[spikydavid.livejournal.com]

"And then I rolled a 6 and a 4..."

[mirabehn.livejournal.com]

Sounds to me from what I'm reading above that your objections are perfectly justified, and anyone who thinks you're being either humourless or anti-charity about it has, frankly, got their head up somewhat their arse.

It's not like you haven't made other suggestions that would be, you know, genuinely amusing. Offending people in the name of a charity isn't doing the charity any favours, and it seems particularly weird to want to do something sexist in the name of Amnesty International!

[purpleheather.livejournal.com]

I agree - I was just thinking that it doesn't really uphold the values of the charity it aims to support.

I'll be at the event, but not sponsoring, having read this thread I don't realy agree with it.

[inskauldrak.livejournal.com]

I think you're correct and it also demeans Amnesty.

[sea-of-flame.livejournal.com]

On UKG, support can often be surmised from silence - it's if people disagree with you that you'll get masses of responses, most people can't be bothered with making an 'I agree!' response.... ;)

[sea-of-flame.livejournal.com]

Oh, and if you want to show your disapproval (and let others show theirs) without causing Amnesty to lose out - ask the organisers whether you can have a simple collection box for Amnesty at the desk somewhere?

[taimatsu]

I'll definitely consider doing that; thanks for the thought.

[smhwpf.livejournal.com]

I think you are perfectly justified in your complaint and courageous in speaking up about it. If anyone thinks less of you for saying it (and I doubt many will), their good opinion isn't worth having.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you definitely are being humourless about all of this, and misguided. There is nothing sexist or discriminatory about the slogan. It is true: corsets do move fat. It is you who is making fat a feminist issue.

Simon

[taimatsu]

Which Simon are you claiming to be? Simon Francis, the gentleman in question in this discussion, has posted on UKG in terms which don't agree with this comment; furthermore, he has an LJ account and is perfectly welcome to use it to comment here. I think someone is trying to make trouble.

[flamma-lupus.livejournal.com]

Well, it's taken me all day to get LJ to let me in, otherwise I'd have responded to this sooner.

Firstly, trite though it may sound, I DO appreciate you stepping forward and raising an objection. I'd far rather that than get to the event, start the collections and find half a dozen deeply offended people.

I'm not going to claim "It's ok because it's for charity", but I will claim that the intent isn't to deeply offend ANY members of the camarilla at a camarilla event, which would of course be CoC breaking.

We didn't realise it would cause active offence, rather than mild amusement. Which is why I have stated quite publically that I'll discuss with Rory altering the t-shirt he's going to wear.

FWIW as I said on UK Gen I don't think you're being humourless over it, I would argue that perhaps you're being a touch sensitive over the matter, especially as someone who I really don't see as fat (unlike myself).

As to advertising on UK-Gen, I got the Mods permission to do so, in fact some of the slogans up there came from the mod (although not the one in question I might add).

No, the anonymous posting wasn't me.

If people bitch/whine at you for being humourless, *I'll* back you up, because you're entitled to your opinion, and your freedom of speech, whether I agree wholeheartedly with you or not.

Chicken suits would be impractical due to the cost required to get the suit in the first place, and whilst I own a santa-suit (don't ask) it's bad timing on that front.

I'll be speaking with rory to discuss changing the shirt, and alternative methods, and I'm currently half toying with the idea of wearing a corset to the event so y'all can mock me (and probably go slightly blind) to even things out a bit.

The dracula idea, *I'm* a little uncomfortable with, but thats through weird mental associations of my own.

Hopefully a compromise can be reached, that leaves nobody feeling got at, hard done by, or uncomfortable.

I appreciate your offer of help to man the collection bucket, and of possible assistance in other fundraising though.

[taimatsu]

Thanks for being sensible and responsive about it. :)

[bringeroflight.livejournal.com]

I don't think that it was a good choice of slogan, even though the idea was well intentioned.

[taimatsu]

Mmm. Hopefully an alternative moneyspinner can be arranged.

[becky-spence.livejournal.com]

Well, me stood in this half isn't thinking you're humourless at all! Glad you said something :) Not on UKG myself, or I might well have :)

[faerierhona.livejournal.com]

good on you simon! A lot of the cam slogans were funnier than that anyways

[kathminchin.livejournal.com]

I have to agree that Simon Francis right now is behaving in a particularly postive and adult manner.

Unlike the person who believes the t-shirt makes a valid point.