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[taimatsu]

I am working on an assessed essay for my "Roots of Gothic" module. There's a choice of only four questions. I'm choosing between two, one on guilt, and one which is worded as follows:

Using evidence from TWO texts on the module, suggest a range of characteristics that might be appropriate to a ‘Gothic’ setting.

How can I address this question while avoiding making it a simple list of things (ruined castle - check, atmospheric weather conditions - check, secret passages - check...)? How can I make it an argument, ideally with something approaching a proper thesis-antithesis-synthesis structure? And would you include items like "distressed heroine", "illicit sexual desires" and "evil monk" in "Gothic setting", or just landscape/weather/buildings?

Comments

[syllopsium.livejournal.com]

The scripts from Van Helsing and Dracula ;) ?

To be marginally serious I do not think distressed heroines and illicit sexual desires are necessarily suitable items for a Gothic setting, other than perhaps in your personal fantasies; the genre is larger than that.

Surely the principles (horror, atmosphere, moral opinion, influences of the time) are more important. It is, for instance, fascinating to look at the history of mummies in fiction, which are affected by the moral background of the age.

[taimatsu]

It's 'appropriate' for, not 'necessary' for. Plenty of critics mention the heroine issue in relation to the kind of texts I'm studying, so that one's not me, and if you read Walpole (the original Gothic novelist) you'd be considering illicit sexual desire as relevant too! The question I was trying to ask is whether 'setting' should be interpreted as simply 'physical background', so, buildings, weather, landscape, and the like, or whether it should be more widely considered as 'context' or 'genre' itself, which could include people, supernatural entities or effects, and other more general characteristics.

[anotherusedpage.livejournal.com]

You've got your 'argument' right there in what you've said - it's about the distinction between gothic 'landscape' and gothic 'setting'; it allows you to talk about what setting/genre is; is it just a list of features or is it something more than that? Are people part of the setting? - and in fact in Gothic literature, quite often the disolcation of the characters from the environment is a feature or the setting.

[taimatsu]

That's a very useful and interesting take on it - thank you very much! :)

[hartleyhare.livejournal.com]

I'd go along with this - you could argue that people are an important part of the emotional setting, as opposed to the purely physical setting. In fact, you could also argue that narrative technique is a crucial part of how the reader perceives setting, and link it to which characters are used as narrators/focalisers and how the ways in which they perceive their environment are an important part of the reading experience.

[wraithwitch.livejournal.com]

I would advise looking up essays on gothic themes to see how they are structured - i was always bad at structuring.

I guess your argument will end up rather like a shopping list of gothic - but the point is you argue *why* it's gothic, what makes and is meant by 'gothic setting' anyway, and how this is used to good effect. Or if it is a traditional gothic element that is missing from the narrative, how might it have effected the story were it included? Also, at what point does adding 'literary goth' over-egg the pudding and turn it into a very tatty melodrama? etc.

lastly to my mind 'setting' in this case in NOT simply scenery. ask what is meant by setting and argue that it is not just scenery but the tools and building-blocks of the genre. (although 'evil monk' is more a device, but 'illicit sexual desire' etc is totally included in setting i think.)

those are my brief thoughts anyways, but i'm *really* out of practice with writing essays.
=)

[taimatsu]

Hurray, I can use my favourite Dictionary of Literary Terms and Literary Theory, and ask it what it thinks 'setting' means! Genius! :)

If I can argue that people are intrinsically part of 'setting' then that would add up to a decent essay. Thanks, this has given me lots to think about.

[arron-shutt.livejournal.com]

Include elements that are gothic which are not part of the standard gothic stereotypical applications. Such as churches, or universities. Or fictional places from Tolkien like Rivendell or Lothlorien which are clearly inspired from similar architecture in towns like Oxford, but have a completely different atmosphere from their setting.

[taimatsu]

I have to stick to using evidence from texts we have studied on the module, and Tolkien is not even vaguely in the period, so he's right out. I think actually the question *is* asking for stereotypical elements of gothic settings, that's the point, but I need to analyse those elements carefully and try to expand on why they are stereotypical. I think churches, in any case, are stereotypically Gothic (Walpole's fiction certainly makes them so) though universities are not. One of our texts is Marlowe's Doctor Faustus, though, which would offer an opportunity to talk to some extent about universities :)

[chrisvenus]

Not a helpful comment here but I'm curious, if you don't know how to answer the question what made you choose it over the others or are the others just even worse in this regard?

Hmmm... though the helpful bit might be that the point is not what you list but why you list them and a discussion on what makes those elements relevant to a "gothic" setting. Though personally of course I worry about how you would go about defining "gothic" since it is presumably a relatively woolly description with a certain amount of leeway.

[taimatsu]

Two of the questions are just not helpful to me at all. I have taken agin them. One of those I just don't feel able to answer and the other I don't like (it's about inanimate objects exerting supernatural influence). The other two, one I feel is possible (on guilt) and this one, I feel *could* potentially be even easier if I can find the right approach, which is why it's worth asking for ideas.

Yes, Gothic is a woolly concept, and that's part of the problem with the question. I suppose it would make sense to define it in relation to the *aims* of Gothic fiction and then show how elements contribute to the effect. It does not have to be definitive, as it says 'might be appropriate to' not 'are necessary for'. :)

[damerell.livejournal.com]

Corsets, drum machines, eyeliner, snakebite and black? # Sorry

[taimatsu]

Have just had horrible vision of entire cast of Castle of Otranto wearing PVC, eyeliner and too much hair-gel. Hate you.

[yvesilena.livejournal.com]

HAAAAAAA.

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

I think those last absolutely count as Gothic settings. They're part of the atmosphere as much as the landscape/weather/buildings.

Use of color, perhaps?

[the-lady-lily.livejournal.com]

I guess in terms of avoiding a simple list, you might say 'here's an element, and here's different ways it can be applied - so your 'illicit sexual desires' can manifest like this or like this'. Which should answer the question about including 'distressed heroine' in your list, as I'd include it.

Oooh, or you could do 'some people would say only landscape/weather/buildings make Gothic but actually there's more to it than that!'

[yvesilena.livejournal.com]

Eee!

'would you include items like "distressed heroine", "illicit sexual desires" and "evil monk" in "Gothic setting", or just landscape/weather/buildings?'

I'd say cover the landscape/weather/buildings thoroughly and then you can add distressed heroines etc. in relation to that for extra points. I think they're certainly looking for scenery-type setting as a minumum, so you'd want to avoid skimping on that in order to talk about things that might or might not be required, but... yeah, what the_lady_lily said.

Thesis-antithesis-synthesis: Maybe think about the fact that they're not asking for a list, they're asking for a range. A range between what and what? I'd say one obvious 'range' in Gothic is between loooong gratuitous Chalet School descriptions of exciting European countryside (where the scenery is there to decorate the story) and settings that are there to echo the story and the thoughts/feelings/nature of the characters by being appropriately brooding/creepy/whatever, almost like incidental music in a film.

[sesquipedality.livejournal.com]

I'd suggest looking at stylistic or thematic characteristics rather than objects you might expect to find in one.

[taimatsu]

*nod* I think I need to look up definitions of 'setting' and work out how to make the word wide enough to fit what I'd like it :)