no subject

[taimatsu]

I have just had my first lecture of the year - the introductory session for Women's Writing 1. This involved defining feminism, mostly, and the horrible but not unexpected discovery that about six of the 60 predominantly female people in the room defined themselves as feminist. Gaaaaah!

Also Gaaaaaah was the thing where the lecturer was talking about an essay on basic feminism which discusses the terms 'feminist' 'female' and 'feminine', and dismissed biological sex - 'female' - as binary 'apart from a few hermaphrodites and things'. I was so cross. I know a variety of people who are women but for whom the biological clues to 'sex' are not straightforwardly female - whether that's because of a chromosomal disorder, or physical intersexedness, or being transsexual/transgendered. The lecturer has no idea if one of those people is in the room, and I was cross that she made them invisible and used what I suspect is rather an inappropriate term for the biologically different. She's my seminar leader so I might be able to tackle her about it tomorrow, though it's tricky when I'm not in that group myself.

Similarly, she was talking about the prevailing image of feminism as all about 'hairy humourless lesbians'; while it's *true* that that's what people think, what if I *had* been a hairy lesbian? It really sounded very dismissive, and her talk didn't make any compensatory mention of the contributions lesbian community has made to the women's movement.

I think I sound way too 'right-on' here, but then the whole point of the lecture was to make the girls who go 'eww, I'm not a feminist!' think again. Maybe it ought to make me think again about saying 'erk, I'm not one of those radical queer folks!' (Actually, I think I'm not, but I get the feeling if I make the fairly basic points above about sex and gender non-hegemony, I'll be thought of as one.)

It makes me nervous to think of saying any of this in a seminar, but I want that to be a safe(r) space where I can talk about, you know, lesbians and queer politics if it's relevant without being afraid to come out. *sigh*

Thoughts most welcome. Anyone got any experience with feminist literary criticism or feminist writing in general? I'm making this public so I can link to it in a community.

Comments

[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

I do think that saying "I believe in equal rights for women* but I'm not a feminist" is a little bit like saying "I worship and follow Jesus Christ, but I'm not a Christian", or "I am attracted to, fall in love with, and have sexual relationships with both men and women, but I'm not bisexual". It's perfectly possible to be egalitarian and feminist.

What's wrong with not defining as feminism is that it helps perpetuate the idea that feminism is wrong, and to a lot of people that has the corollory that women having equal rights to men is wrong.

[1] - actually, that's not quite true - I think feminism also includes an awareness that we don't have equal rights yet.

[madwitch.livejournal.com]

I am an egalitarian. That includes equal rights for women, as it includes equality for all. I am not going to also self define as everything else it includes, so why define as feminist? Also, that's my choice, I choose not to, and anyone telling me I should is bordering on insulting. ifimust puts it very well, it is my *choice* to self define as egalitarian, and not as feminist. It is not anyone else's right to tell me that I am a feminist, or that I should define as one.

[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

It is not anyone else's right to tell me that I am a feminist, or that I should define as one.

Fair enough - that's not really what I'm saying, I'm just saying that by vocally claiming not to be a feminist I think you're damaging the cause of equal rights for women, which you claim to support. You're entirely within your rights to do so, but I don't think it's a terribly consistent position.

[madwitch.livejournal.com]

Usually, I only bother stating my position as an egalitarian when asked, or whatever. It's only when the idea appears that a woman not defining as a feminist is somehow wrong that I get vocal about it, as that really annoys me. It's nobody else's business what people self define as, they can be all for women's equality and not call themselves feminists for all sorts of reasons, and therefore I think it is very out of order for anyone to imply that this is wrong.

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

I'm just saying that by vocally claiming not to be a feminist I think you're damaging the cause of equal rights for women

But the difficulty here is that many feminists associate far more ideas than this one goal with the label "feminism".

[triskellian]

I'm not sure that's really very true (hmm, can I fit any more hedges into that sentence? ;-)

I mean, yes, feminists differ on what would constitute equal rights for women, or on how to go about achieving them, but IME feminism, as defined by actual feminists (rather than, say, Daily Mail journalists) basically boils down to believing two things:

1. The world we live in does not currently treat women as equal to men, and
2. It should.

I can see why people might not choose to call themselves feminists if they believe that to do so they are implying that this is the greatest of all inequalities, or that they want to explicitly claim a different inequality as their main priority, or something similar, but to choose not to use the label because you think it doesn't describe your beliefs - even though you do believe the two things above - seems a bit perverse.

The more people who claim the label and define it properly, the less ground will remain for those who try to redefine it in order to weaken it.

[addedentry.livejournal.com]

It is not anyone else's right to tell me that I am a feminist

Why not? If you quack like a duck, you're entitled to claim that you're not a duck, but I'm just as entitled to refer to you as a duck, thanks.

[ifimust.livejournal.com]

As long as you're not doing it while saying that part of the process in which we're in theory all involved is the right of all ducks to self define, it's fine.

If, however, I'm going to sit here and say that part of feminism, for me, is the right of all women to self define, that means I have to accept their self definitions - whether I like them or not.

I might go so far as to say, "Ok you don't call yourself a feminist, fair enough - but I'd class your beliefs as belonging to the broad spectrum of feminism" - but no further.

If I'm about giving people freedom to self define, I can't then take that freedom back simply becuase I think someone's done it incorrectly...

[madwitch.livejournal.com]

Because it's up to me to define what I am, not you.

[diffrentcolours]

I do think that saying "I believe in equal rights for women but I'm not a feminist" is a little bit like saying "I worship and follow Jesus Christ, but I'm not a Christian", or "I am attracted to, fall in love with, and have sexual relationships with both men and women, but I'm not bisexual".

You agree that it's a perfectly reasonable position then? :)

[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

*chuckles* Reasonable isn't quite the word I'd used. Whilst I'm in principle I'm entirely supportive of people's right to self-define, I think all those statements are a bit daft.

[madwitch.livejournal.com]

Being an egalitarian means I support equality for everyone. Women included. I don't have to call myself a feminist for that.

[thursdaily.livejournal.com]

Curiously, I don't identify as a feminist, because of the association with people who would deny that I'm a woman, on the grounds of transsexuality. On the other hand, I do identify as Christian, despite a large number of evangelical Christians who would deny that I was on exactly the same grounds. I'm not sure quite how I justify the intellectual inconsistency involved there...

I shall have to think more about this.

[medland.livejournal.com]

What beliefs do you hold that would lead people to deny you are a Christian? I'm a Mormon and maaaaaany people tell me I'm not a Christian when hi, I clearly am.

[medland.livejournal.com]

Quakers don't belong to the world forum of churches for that exact reason.

[medland.livejournal.com]

I have extreme reservations about identifying as a feminist because if it were really all about equality, why is it called feminism?

That is my issue also.

[triskellian]

I have extreme reservations about identifying as a feminist because if it were really all about equality, why is it called feminism? The etymology is biased.
Because, although gender inequality hurts everyone, it has historically (and continues to) hurt women more than it has hurt men. The fight for gender equality is still mostly a fight to improve women's position.

[taimatsu]

Ah, I was wondering how to put that. Thank you for clarifying it for me :)

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

Just like the fight for equal rights for different sexual orientations is often called "gay rights".

[thursdaily.livejournal.com]

I used, once, to self-define as a feminist. Curiously, that was when I presented as male, at least to most of the world; I had no qualms about this, on the basis that I believed that women really should have equal rights.

Now that I'm able to live as a woman, I don't. Mostly, this is because of awareness of feminists like Germaine Greer, who go out of their way to make it clear that I am not, will not be, and never have been a woman. While she might be part of a minority, it's still a significant one as far as I can tell (or, at the very least, a very vociferous one). I can't identify with a group that denies my identity and existence, although I still believe just as fervently in equal rights for women. (I do have a slight tendency to think "maybe excluding me" on grounds of hypocrisy, though.)

[taimatsu]

Thank you, that's what I was trying to say.

[medland.livejournal.com]

According to the dictionary feminism is simply wanting equal rights for men and women - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/feminism

[andrewwyld.livejournal.com]

I know a bunch of people who are attracted to men and women alike but don't identify as bisexual.  Equally, a friend of mine knows someone who is attracted to men and women but has just decided she is a lesbian because now she likes oral sex with women.  People sort of call themselves all kinds of things without reference to the technical definitions.